Comments on: An Essential Guide To The Minister’s Salary http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/pastor-salary/ Frugal, Simple, Debt-Free Living, and Generous Giving Sat, 11 Feb 2012 21:06:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: PastorDan http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/pastor-salary/comment-page-1/#comment-16309 PastorDan Sat, 11 Feb 2012 02:45:42 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/an-essential-guide-to-the-ministers-salary/#comment-16309 I am pretty sure that many pastors have read your article and comments in a very similar frame of mind and situation to what I am currently facing. I would firstly like to thank you Craig for the attention to this difficult topic, as well as all the thoughtful comments made. Very simply, I am a servant leader in a healthy but small church in a small town. That hardly makes me one in a million! I am well educated, in fact the only person with an academic Masters degree in the church. That means literally nothing whatsoever to me. I truly mean that. Along with a small amount of student loan outstanding, my wife and I have some substantial debt based on nearly 10 years of dialysis and numerous medical issues for my wife. Due to her health, she receives a small amount in a disability check each month. I receive a very fair wage for our community, but with our special expenses and relatively high cost of living, each year we have slipped farther into debt. Now that we are at a point about 12 months from being unable to pay our monthly mortgage, I need to increase my income. The first step I took was to sit with our elders who are truly thoughtful and godly men. I was dismayed to hear that I was to receive a straight cost of living raise. Here I sit, giving all I am to an absolutely amazing body of believers every day, and beginning to wonder if I can even lead in this scenario as anything I say or do would seem very self-serving. I cannot believe that I have to choose between homelessness and ministry. This has been exceptionally hard on my wife as she feels ultimately responsible. I have yet to find common ground in any way as I am making a very fair wage as compared to our elders, two of whom are retired, one is a local truck driver and the other works at a farm supply store. It is a terrible position to be in. The worst part is that there are some who are beginning to believe that I am "in this for the money". How quickly things relating to finances reveal our every weakness and insecurity. I have regularly said, while encouraging our lovely Deacons, that there are few ways to make a deeply positive impact in our world with money but uncountable opportunities to make a negative one. I just didn't realize I was to experience such a negative impact personally. I would gladly be homeless if I thought that our call...but being kept poor and worked very hard is tough to take. As a side note, our association has been helpful, but their recommendations would be utterly burdensome on our congregation. It seems a compromise would be truly fair, but nothing makes people stubborn like money. Thanks again for the attention to this topic. I know I am not alone in this gut-wrench and soul-checking situation, but it feels darn lonely all the same. Peace, I am pretty sure that many pastors have read your article and comments in a very similar frame of mind and situation to what I am currently facing. I would firstly like to thank you Craig for the attention to this difficult topic, as well as all the thoughtful comments made.

Very simply, I am a servant leader in a healthy but small church in a small town. That hardly makes me one in a million! I am well educated, in fact the only person with an academic Masters degree in the church. That means literally nothing whatsoever to me. I truly mean that. Along with a small amount of student loan outstanding, my wife and I have some substantial debt based on nearly 10 years of dialysis and numerous medical issues for my wife. Due to her health, she receives a small amount in a disability check each month.

I receive a very fair wage for our community, but with our special expenses and relatively high cost of living, each year we have slipped farther into debt. Now that we are at a point about 12 months from being unable to pay our monthly mortgage, I need to increase my income. The first step I took was to sit with our elders who are truly thoughtful and godly men. I was dismayed to hear that I was to receive a straight cost of living raise. Here I sit, giving all I am to an absolutely amazing body of believers every day, and beginning to wonder if I can even lead in this scenario as anything I say or do would seem very self-serving.

I cannot believe that I have to choose between homelessness and ministry.

This has been exceptionally hard on my wife as she feels ultimately responsible. I have yet to find common ground in any way as I am making a very fair wage as compared to our elders, two of whom are retired, one is a local truck driver and the other works at a farm supply store. It is a terrible position to be in.

The worst part is that there are some who are beginning to believe that I am “in this for the money”. How quickly things relating to finances reveal our every weakness and insecurity. I have regularly said, while encouraging our lovely Deacons, that there are few ways to make a deeply positive impact in our world with money but uncountable opportunities to make a negative one. I just didn’t realize I was to experience such a negative impact personally.

I would gladly be homeless if I thought that our call…but being kept poor and worked very hard is tough to take.

As a side note, our association has been helpful, but their recommendations would be utterly burdensome on our congregation. It seems a compromise would be truly fair, but nothing makes people stubborn like money.

Thanks again for the attention to this topic. I know I am not alone in this gut-wrench and soul-checking situation, but it feels darn lonely all the same.

Peace,

]]> By: Craig Ford http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/pastor-salary/comment-page-1/#comment-16302 Craig Ford Wed, 08 Feb 2012 20:36:15 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/an-essential-guide-to-the-ministers-salary/#comment-16302 This sounds like it might be a situation where an outside consultation/mediator would be beneficial. With the numbers you are sharing it definitely seems out of sync. This sounds like it might be a situation where an outside consultation/mediator would be beneficial. With the numbers you are sharing it definitely seems out of sync.

]]> By: Al http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/pastor-salary/comment-page-1/#comment-16294 Al Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:50:37 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/an-essential-guide-to-the-ministers-salary/#comment-16294 I go to a very small Presbyterian (PCA) church for a few years now with 37 members and a current written budget of about $90,000. The pastor’s compensation package is $75,000, which has caused the church to lose about $15,000 this past year – mainly due to the loss of a dozen or so members. I don’t doubt that his work is worth much more than what he’s being paid, however, it would seem apparent that the church simply can’t afford him. Unfortunately, there’s just a single elder who is related to the pastor, so it makes it all the more difficult to broach the issue and any talk of salary reduction is likely to end in family conflict. I go to a very small Presbyterian (PCA) church for a few years now with 37 members and a current written budget of about $90,000. The pastor’s compensation package is $75,000, which has caused the church to lose about $15,000 this past year – mainly due to the loss of a dozen or so members. I don’t doubt that his work is worth much more than what he’s being paid, however, it would seem apparent that the church simply can’t afford him. Unfortunately, there’s just a single elder who is related to the pastor, so it makes it all the more difficult to broach the issue and any talk of salary reduction is likely to end in family conflict.

]]> By: Craig Ford http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/pastor-salary/comment-page-1/#comment-16230 Craig Ford Tue, 31 Jan 2012 00:41:14 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/an-essential-guide-to-the-ministers-salary/#comment-16230 Ellen, You bring up a legitimate issue. You're correct that congregation size has little to do with work load. I do think those of us in ministry understand that when we work for smaller churches we will take a pay cut. I'm not sure there is a way around this, but I do think members at smaller churches should do their best to compensate in whatever non-financial ways they can. Ellen,
You bring up a legitimate issue. You’re correct that congregation size has little to do with work load. I do think those of us in ministry understand that when we work for smaller churches we will take a pay cut. I’m not sure there is a way around this, but I do think members at smaller churches should do their best to compensate in whatever non-financial ways they can.

]]> By: Ellen http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/pastor-salary/comment-page-1/#comment-16215 Ellen Mon, 30 Jan 2012 03:18:44 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/an-essential-guide-to-the-ministers-salary/#comment-16215 I agree with most of what I've read on these posts - pastors should be compensated based on 1 Timothy 5:17, 18, 1 Cor. 9:14, and 2 Cor. 11:7-9 and according to education and experience. However, I do think it's worth noting that pastors of small churches are often doing the work of many pastors of a large church. They are usually, especially as a church planter, the CEO and the CFO (possibly fund-raising for the new church), a counselor, community organizer, administrative assistant, this along with preparing and preaching sermons, preparing worship service, meeting with people, leading small groups, organizing and heading ministry teams, and being on call 24/7. In large churches, these duties are divided among many pastors. I do understand that small churches have less to pay their pastors, however, I don't think the idea that they do less than large-church pastors should be the reason for paying them less. I agree with most of what I’ve read on these posts – pastors should be compensated based on 1 Timothy 5:17, 18, 1 Cor. 9:14, and 2 Cor. 11:7-9 and according to education and experience. However, I do think it’s worth noting that pastors of small churches are often doing the work of many pastors of a large church. They are usually, especially as a church planter, the CEO and the CFO (possibly fund-raising for the new church), a counselor, community organizer, administrative assistant, this along with preparing and preaching sermons, preparing worship service, meeting with people, leading small groups, organizing and heading ministry teams, and being on call 24/7. In large churches, these duties are divided among many pastors. I do understand that small churches have less to pay their pastors, however, I don’t think the idea that they do less than large-church pastors should be the reason for paying them less.

]]> By: Craig Ford http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/pastor-salary/comment-page-1/#comment-16128 Craig Ford Sun, 15 Jan 2012 20:46:55 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/an-essential-guide-to-the-ministers-salary/#comment-16128 Dwayne, I'm not sure about the median income, but that doesn't really matter. The church leaders need to sit down with the pastor and lay everything out. Surely, he would know that if attendance has dropped from 350 to 60 that giving is also down. A church can only afford to pay what they have - no more. I'm assuming someone has been working to identify why membership has dropped so much. Dwayne,
I’m not sure about the median income, but that doesn’t really matter. The church leaders need to sit down with the pastor and lay everything out. Surely, he would know that if attendance has dropped from 350 to 60 that giving is also down. A church can only afford to pay what they have – no more. I’m assuming someone has been working to identify why membership has dropped so much.

]]> By: Dwayne Robbins http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/pastor-salary/comment-page-1/#comment-16111 Dwayne Robbins Fri, 13 Jan 2012 12:55:06 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/an-essential-guide-to-the-ministers-salary/#comment-16111 Help. I need advice on what to do about our pastors salary. At the time the pastor was hired we had an average attendance of 350. We are now running an average of 60. We can no longer afford to pay the 55K plus housing allowance. What is the median income for a church with that kind of average attendance? Help. I need advice on what to do about our pastors salary. At the time the pastor was hired we had an average attendance of 350. We are now running an average of 60. We can no longer afford to pay the 55K plus housing allowance.

What is the median income for a church with that kind of average attendance?

]]> By: Craig Ford http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/pastor-salary/comment-page-1/#comment-16079 Craig Ford Sun, 08 Jan 2012 20:09:07 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/an-essential-guide-to-the-ministers-salary/#comment-16079 Jordan, I agree that $28,000 is too low. With our three kids that would be a burden on our family. Jordan,
I agree that $28,000 is too low. With our three kids that would be a burden on our family.

]]> By: Jordan http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/pastor-salary/comment-page-1/#comment-16062 Jordan Sat, 07 Jan 2012 21:55:19 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/an-essential-guide-to-the-ministers-salary/#comment-16062 Are you trolling? Your sentences don't make sense together. $28,000/year is poor, period, and especially if you consider the hourly rate, considering how many hours pastors are expected to be on call. That's $77/day, prior to taxes, which for a pastor are around 30% if they pay self-employment. That brings you to $54/day. There is no way for a pastor to do anything other than scrape by on that kind of money. Are you trolling? Your sentences don’t make sense together. $28,000/year is poor, period, and especially if you consider the hourly rate, considering how many hours pastors are expected to be on call.

That’s $77/day, prior to taxes, which for a pastor are around 30% if they pay self-employment. That brings you to $54/day. There is no way for a pastor to do anything other than scrape by on that kind of money.

]]> By: Mary Rudis http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/pastor-salary/comment-page-1/#comment-14939 Mary Rudis Sat, 02 Jul 2011 14:16:57 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/an-essential-guide-to-the-ministers-salary/#comment-14939 Brothers, I disagree with this notion of compensation and trust. There is no other business/calling that measures compensation partly by the ability of the payee to "handle" versus "mishandle" the funds. Salary ought to be calculated solely on the ability of the congregation to provide and consideration of what is fair based on similar professions. Now, I DO agree that the pastor is accountable for his/her actions. But churches ought not to micro-manage and scrutinize how a person takes care of his own finances. I would go so far as to suggest that church denominations provide infrastructure to help pastors with financial planning and sound decisions. No matter how small your church is (my dad was 25 years pastor at a church with 200 members), pastors should be given the freedom, and be equipped with support/encouragement to practice good stewardship. But keep in mind "good stewardship" definitions can vary. A certain amount of debt is not evil (for example). Brothers,
I disagree with this notion of compensation and trust. There is no other business/calling that measures compensation partly by the ability of the payee to “handle” versus “mishandle” the funds. Salary ought to be calculated solely on the ability of the congregation to provide and consideration of what is fair based on similar professions. Now, I DO agree that the pastor is accountable for his/her actions. But churches ought not to micro-manage and scrutinize how a person takes care of his own finances. I would go so far as to suggest that church denominations provide infrastructure to help pastors with financial planning and sound decisions. No matter how small your church is (my dad was 25 years pastor at a church with 200 members), pastors should be given the freedom, and be equipped with support/encouragement to practice good stewardship. But keep in mind “good stewardship” definitions can vary. A certain amount of debt is not evil (for example).

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