Comments on: Should a Christian Declare Bankruptcy? http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-christian-bankruptcy/ Frugal, Simple, Debt-Free Living, and Generous Giving Sat, 11 Feb 2012 21:06:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Amy http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-christian-bankruptcy/comment-page-1/#comment-16248 Amy Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:20:26 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-a-christian-declare-bankruptcy/#comment-16248 Thank you for posting that article. My husband informed me last night that we need to declare bankruptcy or our house face forclosure this coming week. Quick background, he was laid off from a very well paying job about 2 years ago and, having not been good at saving, though we didn't have credit card debt, our house payments and student loans became to much to handle...I found out too late. You see, for me, this goes deeper than financial stress. This hits at the core of our marriage and the trust that is supposed to be there. Throughout our marriage I've trusted everytime he has said "everything is ok. I've got a plan". Only to find out that he's been robbing Peter to pay Paul and all the balls he was juggling are now crashing around us. I am at fault. I was not as involved in our finances or keeping him accountable for the handling of them as I should have been. But I've also been lied to. Everytime I questioned the spending we were doing I was assured that everything was "ok". And yes, we went through counseling during this time...but again realizng that my husband wasn't necessarily honest with me during those times either. We can't lose our house. My mother lives with us and we have two children (10 years old and 18 months). Please pray for the healing of our marriage. We are very involved in ministry in our church (why I sought counseling in the first place) and feel there is no one I can talk to about this bringing shame on him/us. I feel like I am in a pit and can see no future or restoration from this one. In my head I know God is big enough...my heart is just to raw right now. Thank you for posting that article. My husband informed me last night that we need to declare bankruptcy or our house face forclosure this coming week. Quick background, he was laid off from a very well paying job about 2 years ago and, having not been good at saving, though we didn’t have credit card debt, our house payments and student loans became to much to handle…I found out too late. You see, for me, this goes deeper than financial stress. This hits at the core of our marriage and the trust that is supposed to be there. Throughout our marriage I’ve trusted everytime he has said “everything is ok. I’ve got a plan”. Only to find out that he’s been robbing Peter to pay Paul and all the balls he was juggling are now crashing around us. I am at fault. I was not as involved in our finances or keeping him accountable for the handling of them as I should have been. But I’ve also been lied to. Everytime I questioned the spending we were doing I was assured that everything was “ok”. And yes, we went through counseling during this time…but again realizng that my husband wasn’t necessarily honest with me during those times either. We can’t lose our house. My mother lives with us and we have two children (10 years old and 18 months). Please pray for the healing of our marriage. We are very involved in ministry in our church (why I sought counseling in the first place) and feel there is no one I can talk to about this bringing shame on him/us. I feel like I am in a pit and can see no future or restoration from this one. In my head I know God is big enough…my heart is just to raw right now.

]]> By: Ashley http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-christian-bankruptcy/comment-page-1/#comment-16214 Ashley Mon, 30 Jan 2012 01:25:20 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-a-christian-declare-bankruptcy/#comment-16214 I think it could strongly benefit you to remember Matthew 7 as well. I too could not understand these same issues because I always worked to pay cash, I did not use credit, I saved up. Unfortunately there comes a point where you spend your savings & you have no other way to feed your families without taking assistance or using credit but I have learned a lesson from it - God promises our food will be sure so why use credit & put ourselves in further debt to provide the things God promises to provide? I have learned that nothing I can do in this world will save me from the lessons God needs to apply to my life; to help me become the person that is fit to be with Him in heaven. Not to say that I have any guarantee of heaven but sometimes it takes extreme circumstances to help understand the difficulties others face. As with any other mistakes in life, the object of a lesson is to learn from it & make changes for the future - determining whether or not to go bankruptcy is a personal decision to be made between an individual or family & God. God wants us to have a relationship with him; the cost of a bankruptcy is of no consequence to him. I am struggling with this decision for our family & in responding to your comments I have since realized where I stand on this. I know that I will follow God's commands & be careful of our investments in the future & not allow myself to use credit unnecessarily. I also know that while I feel this is something God would judge me for & look negatively upon, I now realize where my spiritual journey has started in all of this & the growth that has developed with my God - I will gladly accept the responsibilities, learn from my mistakes & trust in God in the future, so I feel that for me going through bankruptcy to gain a relationship with him is so wonderful! I have one last question for you -- if you are so wise financially to never put yourself in this position, why the interest in others views on bankruptcy? If you are not concerned with/facing bankruptcy, then why should you worry about these comments or even look at this article? That's rhetorical - search your heart & answer that for yourself. I think it could strongly benefit you to remember Matthew 7 as well. I too could not understand these same issues because I always worked to pay cash, I did not use credit, I saved up. Unfortunately there comes a point where you spend your savings & you have no other way to feed your families without taking assistance or using credit but I have learned a lesson from it – God promises our food will be sure so why use credit & put ourselves in further debt to provide the things God promises to provide?

I have learned that nothing I can do in this world will save me from the lessons God needs to apply to my life; to help me become the person that is fit to be with Him in heaven. Not to say that I have any guarantee of heaven but sometimes it takes extreme circumstances to help understand the difficulties others face. As with any other mistakes in life, the object of a lesson is to learn from it & make changes for the future – determining whether or not to go bankruptcy is a personal decision to be made between an individual or family & God.

God wants us to have a relationship with him; the cost of a bankruptcy is of no consequence to him. I am struggling with this decision for our family & in responding to your comments I have since realized where I stand on this. I know that I will follow God’s commands & be careful of our investments in the future & not allow myself to use credit unnecessarily. I also know that while I feel this is something God would judge me for & look negatively upon, I now realize where my spiritual journey has started in all of this & the growth that has developed with my God – I will gladly accept the responsibilities, learn from my mistakes & trust in God in the future, so I feel that for me going through bankruptcy to gain a relationship with him is so wonderful!

I have one last question for you — if you are so wise financially to never put yourself in this position, why the interest in others views on bankruptcy? If you are not concerned with/facing bankruptcy, then why should you worry about these comments or even look at this article? That’s rhetorical – search your heart & answer that for yourself.

]]> By: Craig Ford http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-christian-bankruptcy/comment-page-1/#comment-16133 Craig Ford Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:50:38 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-a-christian-declare-bankruptcy/#comment-16133 Stacey, It appears as if you have two problems that will not be addressed through bankruptcy. First, except for very rare occasions student loans cannot be cleared through bankruptcy. If your primary debt burden is from student loans then you need to be exploring other options. Second, bankruptcy does not increase your income. You seem to have an income crisis as much as a debt crisis. If you could get a job with a decent salary (which I’m confident you can) then you could clean up this issue without bankruptcy. Like Gladys I suggest you talk to an attorney **not a bankruptcy lawyer **. I think you might like to read another post I wrote – www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/ the-liberation-of-choice/. Stacey,

It appears as if you have two problems that will not be addressed through bankruptcy.

First, except for very rare occasions student loans cannot be cleared through bankruptcy. If your primary debt burden is from student loans then you need to be exploring other options.

Second, bankruptcy does not increase your income. You seem to have an income crisis as much as a debt crisis. If you could get a job with a decent salary (which I’m confident you can) then you could clean up this issue without bankruptcy.

Like Gladys I suggest you talk to an attorney **not a bankruptcy lawyer **.

I think you might like to read another post I wrote – http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/ the-liberation-of-choice/.

]]> By: Gladys http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-christian-bankruptcy/comment-page-1/#comment-16132 Gladys Mon, 16 Jan 2012 00:08:17 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-a-christian-declare-bankruptcy/#comment-16132 Hi Stacey, I just finished reading your post. I do sympathize with your situation. I just don't know if you are aware that student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. Speak to an attorney before you file is my advice to you. He/she will be able to advise you which loans if any can be discharged in bankruptcy Hi Stacey,

I just finished reading your post. I do sympathize with your situation. I just don’t know if you are aware that student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. Speak to an attorney before you file is my advice to you. He/she will be able to advise you which loans if any can be discharged in bankruptcy

]]> By: Stacey http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-christian-bankruptcy/comment-page-1/#comment-16126 Stacey Sun, 15 Jan 2012 20:03:38 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-a-christian-declare-bankruptcy/#comment-16126 I have just begun making payments toward fulfilling the filing fee for my bankruptcy. I struggled for years with the thought of what it would do to me and others even though I was given advice by elderly people that I trusted to do so. Actually I've been pretty good with my finances throughout the years except for college loans. I went for 14 years of my adult life without using a single credit card, and I saved money for car repairs, and paid a little on all my bills each month. I took on financial responsibility of my college loans halfway through and I thought I was leaving with a debt load of 12,000.00 of which I paid 3,000.00 while I was still in school. But as it turns out there is another 12,000 loan owed that has spiraled up to 30,000 now because of deferments, forbearances, and interest. I worked alot but also hit hardships and paid about half of the private loan that did go into judgement, default for seven years and finally cleared from my credit report, but with the economy and loss of jobs going from 10.45 an hour working in an accounting department and living on my own with a roommate to now living at home for the past six years with little to no income except on a substitute basis it has driven me to this option of filing for bankruptcy. There was some kind of wrong doing on the institutional level that brought me to this place and I being a young and naive college student seeing no other course than to finish school so that I could get a job. "on my own" went ahead and signed on the dotted line,etc. I'm glad I finished but I had no idea what it would cost me to study theology in school, and no real support at home or at the school to do something more and I'm not sure I had it together enough myself to make sure that all that happened anyway. I do know however that I have been scorned to no end by people who have thought that I hated money and people who do make money just because I chose to go after God and study his word. One denominational church sought to show me that studying theology before going into ministry was not helpful to me because I would be seen as a threat to religious groups I wanted to join and other denominational churches seek to show me that I overdid it by choosing that major, etc, etc, and it has been such an emotional problem, with people trying to sway you one way or the other promising heaven or threatening hell based on your each and every move. I'm so gratefully I finally have the courage to do this and reduce my debt. My 84 year old monogamous grandmother, married to one man for 62 years, and my most trusted pastor and friend for several years who is in his 70's gave me this advice to bankrupt and I'm glad I'm following through. I feel as if a burden is going to be lifted off of my shoulders and because I can finally trust that God wants to forgive me for my "responsibility" as regards this debt just the way he said he wanted to do for the Jewish people in the year of Jubilee, then I can finally move on with my life and after it's over and the judge has made his final decision and discharged my debt, what can anyone else say. Their dirty looks and remarks won't mean a thing because I know what God's heart is and that he is willing to recover me all the way financially speaking. I have just begun making payments toward fulfilling the filing fee for my bankruptcy. I struggled for years with the thought of what it would do to me and others even though I was given advice by elderly people that I trusted to do so. Actually I’ve been pretty good with my finances throughout the years except for college loans. I went for 14 years of my adult life without using a single credit card, and I saved money for car repairs, and paid a little on all my bills each month. I took on financial responsibility of my college loans halfway through and I thought I was leaving with a debt load of 12,000.00 of which I paid 3,000.00 while I was still in school. But as it turns out there is another 12,000 loan owed that has spiraled up to 30,000 now because of deferments, forbearances, and interest. I worked alot but also hit hardships and paid about half of the private loan that did go into judgement, default for seven years and finally cleared from my credit report, but with the economy and loss of jobs going from 10.45 an hour working in an accounting department and living on my own with a roommate to now living at home for the past six years with little to no income except on a substitute basis it has driven me to this option of filing for bankruptcy. There was some kind of wrong doing on the institutional level that brought me to this place and I being a young and naive college student seeing no other course than to finish school so that I could get a job. “on my own” went ahead and signed on the dotted line,etc. I’m glad I finished but I had no idea what it would cost me to study theology in school, and no real support at home or at the school to do something more and I’m not sure I had it together enough myself to make sure that all that happened anyway. I do know however that I have been scorned to no end by people who have thought that I hated money and people who do make money just because I chose to go after God and study his word. One denominational church sought to show me that studying theology before going into ministry was not helpful to me because I would be seen as a threat to religious groups I wanted to join and other denominational churches seek to show me that I overdid it by choosing that major, etc, etc, and it has been such an emotional problem, with people trying to sway you one way or the other promising heaven or threatening hell based on your each and every move. I’m so gratefully I finally have the courage to do this and reduce my debt. My 84 year old monogamous grandmother, married to one man for 62 years, and my most trusted pastor and friend for several years who is in his 70′s gave me this advice to bankrupt and I’m glad I’m following through. I feel as if a burden is going to be lifted off of my shoulders and because I can finally trust that God wants to forgive me for my “responsibility” as regards this debt just the way he said he wanted to do for the Jewish people in the year of Jubilee, then I can finally move on with my life and after it’s over and the judge has made his final decision and discharged my debt, what can anyone else say. Their dirty looks and remarks won’t mean a thing because I know what God’s heart is and that he is willing to recover me all the way financially speaking.

]]> By: Richard http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-christian-bankruptcy/comment-page-1/#comment-15856 Richard Wed, 14 Dec 2011 20:49:16 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-a-christian-declare-bankruptcy/#comment-15856 Craig IMHO ? Maybe? Too Much Grace is already being shown.. #1. Losing your home? Did you opt for a 5% down loan? or a much more realistic 20% dn. Did your new cost cost PITI come to ever 40% of your monthly net.. add 10% Tithe and 10% personal Long term savings and your left with 40% for all the rest... #2. Credit Cards.. do you buy what you need and THEN pay it off every month? Zero it out even every other month? Or even every year? Should we now discuss Dave Ramsey here? You Borrowed ? YOU OWE IT! Are there a few instances when you have No Control? Yes there are.. Medical bills is one IF??? You chose to have Medical Insurance!! Comes out of your wages or your 40%.. Craig IMHO ? Maybe? Too Much Grace is already being shown..
#1. Losing your home? Did you opt for a 5% down loan? or a much more realistic 20% dn.
Did your new cost cost PITI come to ever 40% of your monthly net.. add 10% Tithe and 10% personal Long term savings and your left with 40% for all the rest…
#2. Credit Cards.. do you buy what you need and THEN pay it off every month? Zero it out even every other month? Or even every year? Should we now discuss Dave Ramsey here?
You Borrowed ? YOU OWE IT!
Are there a few instances when you have No Control? Yes there are.. Medical bills is one IF??? You chose to have Medical Insurance!! Comes out of your wages or your 40%..

]]> By: Craig Ford http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-christian-bankruptcy/comment-page-1/#comment-15853 Craig Ford Wed, 14 Dec 2011 20:31:06 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-a-christian-declare-bankruptcy/#comment-15853 Richard, I wonder if the parable in Matthew 18:21ff would add a seasoning of grace to this discussion. Richard,
I wonder if the parable in Matthew 18:21ff would add a seasoning of grace to this discussion.

]]> By: Richard http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-christian-bankruptcy/comment-page-1/#comment-15850 Richard Wed, 14 Dec 2011 03:50:16 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-a-christian-declare-bankruptcy/#comment-15850 Christians: Don't borrow and then not pay it back.. Christians: Plan for the future $ave and always have a years "cost" in cash as a safety net.. Lots of "stories " as I read them and I have little doubt that many if any would "hold water" if we had the ability to examine private truths.. But lets say you did all you could .. That you never over spent.. that you never bought on credit.. why are you buying n credit in the first place? Oh You NEED IT NOW!!! Hummmmm So you default.. you lied to the lender.. and you lied to GOD.. hummmm You stole from the lender if your not paying it back.. Bottom Line your a thief! UNLESS... Before you even begin the Bankruptcy procedure you have begun a plan to Pay Back Ever Dollar! Maybe not the "new acquired interest" but every dollar owed BEFORE ... default! Yes INTEREST AND ALL.... You people are choosing to twist this ( The Bible ) to benefit you .... A Lot! #1. It was a National Year of Debt Forgiveness.. Lets say it ALL started in the year 1.. and in the year 8 All Debts were known to be forgiven.. It was knowledge known ahead of time.. Therefore FEW loans were ever made.. and People were taking before the Judges for debts and often sent to Prison! That said... the closer to the Anniversary date the smaller the loan was , that was made... These were ALL Personal Loans.. loans between TWO Individuals..!!! Your Honor and Community Standing No Doubt stood in the balance.. at least to some extent.. Do you think loans were made over and over again to those who just borrowed and borrowed and NEVER Paid back..???? #2. This was very discriminatory policy .. Its was ONLY between JEWS! Only Jews! JEWS were Never Required to forgive debts of "others"... Well That's a good start.. let the whining and the excuses begin.. Christians: Don’t borrow and then not pay it back..
Christians: Plan for the future $ave and always have a years “cost” in cash as a safety net.. Lots of “stories ” as I read them and I have little doubt that many if any would “hold water” if we had the ability to examine private truths..
But lets say you did all you could .. That you never over spent.. that you never bought on credit.. why are you buying n credit in the first place? Oh You NEED IT NOW!!!
Hummmmm
So you default.. you lied to the lender.. and you lied to GOD.. hummmm You stole from the lender if your not paying it back.. Bottom Line your a thief! UNLESS… Before you even begin the Bankruptcy procedure you have begun a plan to Pay Back Ever Dollar! Maybe not the “new acquired interest” but every dollar owed BEFORE … default! Yes INTEREST AND ALL….
You people are choosing to twist this ( The Bible ) to benefit you …. A Lot!
#1. It was a National Year of Debt Forgiveness.. Lets say it ALL started in the year 1.. and in the year 8 All Debts were known to be forgiven.. It was knowledge known ahead of time.. Therefore FEW loans were ever made.. and People were taking before the Judges for debts and often sent to Prison!
That said… the closer to the Anniversary date the smaller the loan was , that was made…
These were ALL Personal Loans.. loans between TWO Individuals..!!! Your Honor and Community Standing No Doubt stood in the balance.. at least to some extent.. Do you think loans were made over and over again to those who just borrowed and borrowed and NEVER Paid back..????
#2. This was very discriminatory policy .. Its was ONLY between JEWS! Only Jews!
JEWS were Never Required to forgive debts of “others”…
Well That’s a good start.. let the whining and the excuses begin..

]]> By: Craig Ford http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-christian-bankruptcy/comment-page-1/#comment-15825 Craig Ford Sat, 10 Dec 2011 20:26:49 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-a-christian-declare-bankruptcy/#comment-15825 Krystal, I'm not sure that I find anything in the Bible that distinguishes between the type of debt. If you have a way to repay then you should. However, if you've done all you can to repay then eventually the hospital may force you into bankruptcy. Krystal,
I’m not sure that I find anything in the Bible that distinguishes between the type of debt. If you have a way to repay then you should. However, if you’ve done all you can to repay then eventually the hospital may force you into bankruptcy.

]]> By: Craig Ford http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-christian-bankruptcy/comment-page-1/#comment-15822 Craig Ford Sat, 10 Dec 2011 20:22:33 +0000 http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/should-a-christian-declare-bankruptcy/#comment-15822 Nicka, I’m sorry you’re in such a stressful situation. I can’t imagine how hard that must be. I would seek a Christ honoring financial advisor or sit down with a leader at your church. There are many details that would need to be analyzed before I could ever being to give you wise advice. For now be sure you are putting first things first. Give priority of your time to you faith. Give priority of your money to the things that are most important to for living. May God give you peace and wisdom. Nicka,
I’m sorry you’re in such a stressful situation. I can’t imagine how hard that must be. I would seek a Christ honoring financial advisor or sit down with a leader at your church. There are many details that would need to be analyzed before I could ever being to give you wise advice.
For now be sure you are putting first things first. Give priority of your time to you faith. Give priority of your money to the things that are most important to for living.
May God give you peace and wisdom.

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