Seeking God's wisdom when faced with hard choices
The following is a question related to giving/tithing while in debt that a reader emailed to me:
How do you balance good stewardship and putting God first – or is there a difference?
Let’s say you have gotten into a lot of debt, learned a lot of hard lessons and are doing everything possible to improve your financial situation. You have worked diligently to cut expenses wherever possible and have come up with a budget, including a certain amount to give. As a result of debt, your budget is so tight that there is not much money, if any, left over after giving, debt, living expenses, etc.
What would you say is being a better steward of the money God gave you? (Understanding that poor stewardship may have put you in the current financial situation, but looking forward with determination, dedication, a proper focus and the understanding that less debt does not mean more spending power.)
1) Pay the amount of tithe you determined appropriate (10%, etc), even if it means making close to minimum payments on bad debt. God should be the first line in your budget, but also could mean wasting thousands of dollars towards interest. Is this good stewardship?
Or
2) Lowering the amount of giving in order to create an opportunity to pay off debt more quickly. This could result in saving thousands of dollars of interest, but lowers the priority of giving back to God first. Are you robbing God?
Giving or Tithing While in Debt
First, I think God is honored by the heart with which you ask these questions. Your question seeks to determine how your relationship with God impacts your finances. For a person who says they were formerly a ‘poor steward,’ you are showing a healthy spiritual disposition of inquiry. I believe God is honored by your conscientious consideration as you seek to find what pleases him.
Second, the severity of your debt may (or may not) impact your individual situation.
My response:
I believe tithing is not just a monetary practice (like paying a bill), but it is a spiritual act. Therefore, when we neglect spiritual activities it impacts our relationship with God. Giving releases us from the heavy grip of money. Tithing is a spiritual activity that vividly reenacts the reality that God is the owner over all things. When you stop tithing you miss out on these spiritual blessings.
There is not a single situation in the Bible (that I am aware of) where someone was too poor to tithe. There are, however, situations where those who were financially struggling gave. Here are three such examples:
- The Widow at Zerephath (1 Kings 17:7-24). Out of the thousands of people God could have sent Elijah to, he sent Elijah to a woman who was collecting wood to cook her last supper. God asked the woman to act in faith because God’s strength is made perfect in weakness (2 Cor. 12:9).
- The Widow with two coins (Luke 21:1-4). Continuing the theme of the widow’s generosity, here Jesus commends this woman’s action. Surely, many of us would condemn it as poor stewardship, but Jesus speaks positively of her actions.
- The Macedonian Christians (2 Cor. 8:1-7). Once again, we see this theme of commending those who give even in the midst of their poverty. Again, the overall impression is that this is a positive – not a negative act.
Perhaps the story of the woman who anointed Jesus would be a positive illustration for us (John 13:1-7). Here the woman’s action does not make sense to those with Jesus. The extravagance of her gift violates common sense and mathematical sense. In fact, one of their underlying accusations was that she was a poor steward. The money would have better been used for the poor. Jesus explains anything done in an effort to honor him cannot not be construed as poor stewardship. In other words, if you tithe while in debt and your tithe is a gift out of love for Christ, you need not worry that you are being a poor steward. In fact, Jesus would congratulate you for being a good steward.
Withholding a tithe may be a spiritually unhealthy statement about God’s inability to provide. Personally, I would rather have a longer journey out of debt while enjoying the blessings of giving. Furthermore, I only find one scriptural reason to stop tithing – when tithing has become a burden, not a blessing, and you give out of obligation instead of joy (2 Cor. 9:7). If you are currently in this situation, wrestle in prayer with God, study the scriptures, and trust him to show you the right pathway.
If a person did decide to postpone tithing I would suggest implementing the following guidelines:
- I would suggest you sit down with a respected leader in your church. Discuss your considerations openly. This will first provide you some feedback, and second it will provide you with some accountability.
- It must be done with the belief that this action is both pleasing to God and honoring to your family. Do not stop tithing if greed or selfishness is your motivation.
- It must be for a short predetermined period of time. Remind yourself that you are not forming a new habit, but instead temporarily accepting a little lack of equilibrium with the desire to get back into a normal habit of giving.
- Be sure you know exactly why you went into debt. Otherwise, you will likely forgo tithing and end up further into debt.
- Be sure you are following a plan to get out of debt. Don’t just quit tithing with a hope that one day you will be out of debt and able to tithe again. Have a detailed game plan. Otherwise you will never get out of debt and subsequently probably never resume your tithing.
To be clear, I do not suggest you stop tithing while you are trying to get out of debt. But if you choose not to accept this advice, you need to be sure the proper boundaries are in place so that you can return as quickly as possible to practicing this spiritual discipline.
Anyone agree or even disagree? Anyone have any other thoughts or ideas for this reader? Any other biblical stories that you think would provide some biblical insight into how we should answer this question?
Other Great Articles:
- Christian Giving: Seeking A Healthy View of Giving and Tithing
- Christian Giving, Christian Tithing & Other Giving Strategies
- Tithing, Faith, and Testing God
- The Stages of Giving | Teaching Children About Giving (Adults too)
- Giving Story | Focus on Giving First
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{ 80 comments… read them below or add one }
Firstfruits are never the same as tithes in the Bible. Tithes were always only food from inside Israel and no tithes came from carpenters, fishermen or tentmakers. Firstfruits were only very small token offerings per Deu 26:1-4 and Neh 10:35-38.
God does not ask for our first tenth. He asks the Church to give freewill, generous, sacrificial, joyful offerings as he decides in his heart as motivated by the Holy Spirit. That may mean more than 10% for many and less for others.
According to 1st Timothy 5:8 the first should go to buy medicine and essential food and shelter. God does not cruelly ask for our first when we need the first for essentials.
Your definition of tithing is man-made and is not biblical. God does not honor those who change the defintion of words as used in His Word.
LIE: There is not a single situation in the Bible (that I am aware of) where someone was too poor to tithe.
The only persons who qualified as tithe-payers were farmes inside Israel. Jesus, Peter and Paul could not tithe and neither could the poor nor those who lived outside Israel. The poor widow gave a sacrificial freewill offering and ot a tithe.
The Widow at Zerephath (1 Kings 17:7-24).
The Bible does not say that this widow paid any tithes.
The Widow with two coins (Luke 21:1-4 ). This is a discussion of generous sacrificila giving and not tithing.
The Macedonian Christians (2 Cor. 8:1-7).
More examples of freewill sacrificial giving in the spirit of the New Covenant. No mention is made of using the funds for church clergy or buildings.
“Withholding a tithe may be a spiritually unhealthy statement about God’s inability to provide.” No Bible texts to verify.
The test of Malachi 3:10 is a test of the whole law. Obey ALL to be blessed; break ONE to be cursed. This is in the context of Neh 10:28-29 and Malachi 4:4. Galatians 3:10-13 clearly replaces Malachi 3:10-12 for Hebrews especially.
I find many scriptural reasons to stop tithing
(1) The temple changed, (2) the priesthood changed, (3) the covenant changed, (4) the Levitical cities ended, (4) there are no more Levites and Aaronic priessts, (5) the Church is not called a storehouse, (6) preachers do not forfeit property ownership, (7) preachers do not kill others attempting to worship God as in Numbers 18 and (8) Hebrews 7:18 clearly annuls tithing from 7:5 and 7:12.
I invie you to enter into a detailed dialog with me on my Yahoo Tithing-Group.
Russell Earl Kelly, PHD
http://www.tithing-russkelly.com
@Russell I can tell you are obviously passionate about your beliefs.
The concern you express regarding my post, I believe is merely semantics. The majority of Christians use the word tithe to describe a gift given to God
while I would be the first to admit that is not the technical definition it is the functional usage by Christians. The common usage of tithe is a gift given to God.
I suspect if you asked the majority of Christians what is a ” freewill, generous, sacrificial, joyful offering” most would say that is a tithe.
“The Widow with two coins (Luke 21:1-4 ). This is a discussion of generous sacrificila giving and not tithing.” Here would be another place where semantics is the issue not theology.I believe most Americans would call “generous sacfifical giving” tithing. This is the function usage.
You claim that the following statement is a lie, “There is not a single situation in the Bible (that I am aware of) where someone was too poor to tithe.”
Notice specifically that I made the statement in humility acknowledging I am not infallible – hence the statement that “I am aware of”. I am unsure how that
statement can be a lie.
Again, if you were to substitute the word tithe for give we would likely be in agreement.
Perhaps we could test the semantic issue by asking the question: Are there any scriptural reasons to stop giving?
Is this a Jehovah Witness site? I notice the “Tithing is Unscriptural site llooked like one.
Rick
Nope.
Hey Craig,
Thank you for allowing God to work through you. God bless!
Benjamin
Benjamin,
Thanks for your encouraging words.
I trust the teachings of the late Larry Burkett on this issue. So here is my .02 cents worth…
Malachi 3:10 says bring the whole tithe into the storehouse. Not some of it, or 2% of it. Bring a tithe. A tithe is 10%. It does not say anything about giving for a little while then stopping. Or here are the reasons you can stop.
Malachi 3:8 says: Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
“But you ask, ‘How do we rob you?’
“In tithes and offerings.
yes, it says tithes AND OFFERINGS. There were about 17 different types of offerings done then, and there were very specific rules as to how they were supposed to be done. So if we follow this scripture and quote this verse to get people to tithe, then why do not the preachers require those offerings as well?
Read Mal 2:1 also where he specifies that he’s talking to the priests. It’s highly likely that in 3:8 he’s still talking to the priests, as there’s no clear shift in who he’s talking to. A certain portion of the tithe was supposed to go to the widows, fatherless, Levites, and I believe the strangers (because they had no inheritance in the land). How do you do something to God? You do it to “the least of these?” Read Matthew 25:35-45. If you want to rob God of tithes and offerings, then steal the portion from those poor people have a “right” to receive. This same “right” that it speaks of in Mal. 3:5 when God’s speaks of those who’ve turned aside the stranger from his “right.” These days, some pastors say that if the person is not a tithing member of that church and are a stranger then they can’t even get any financial help from them.
And you’re right, 2% is not a tithe. In order for there to be a tithe, it must be the tenth. So to even have something called a tithe, it must be a tenth, which suggests that there were collections of tenths (i.e. if 90 people gave a tenth, 10 people gave 2%, then there are 90 tithes), and all of those tithes were not brought in. Otherwise it would have seemed more fitting to just simply say “bring a tithe, or tithes into the storehouse.” Saying “all of the tithes” in my understanding suggests something different… that there were tithes given, but that they weren’t all being brought in (another form of extortion, or stealing).
hi Craig,
I believe in the power of trusting God, which is what tithing is all about.
Let me begin by saying that I’m not as well versed in the theological debate about tithing as others who have left their comments. However, i can attest to God’s grace that has been poured out on me as a direct result of a heart-felt commitment to tithing. the question is whether we really trust our Lord to provide for us, lilies of the field and all that.
Two weeks ago, i went to give a private class ( i was counting on the money to be able to eat that week) and it turned out that for some reason my students were late and the woman who answered the door told me that they had gone out and wouldn’t return til late that night. Well, at first on my way home on the bus i began to worry and fret, but then the Lord gave me the word about the battle is the Lord’s and immediately a peace came over my heart, so i said well, let’s see my God’s powerful hand move. Before i even got to my house, as i was walking home, a friend at a small neighborhood business said “Kimberly, could u do a book translation?”. The Lord blessed me with even more than i would have gotten if i had given the class !!! Praise Jesus. hallelujah. So tithing is all about our trusting the creator of the universe to do such a little thing as taking care of us, His children.
@Kimberly
You’re right that trusting God is an important part of giving.
good info
I have always trusted in the Lord, paying my tithes first, and he has always provided. Thanks Craig for you site
Dan,
Thanks for you comment and thanks for you kind words. It is encouraging to hear that God has alwasy provided.
I tithed for 30 years and I can honestly say, it did not work. I no longer tithe because it was given only to the Levites in the OT. There are no Levites today. A tithe has always been and shall always be food/eatable/crops, wine oil, cattle and grain items from inside Isreal. Any man who changes the the tithe from food items to money is changing the Word of God, which God specifically prohibits. Do not add to or change the Word to construct a money gathering system. Doing so will bring a curse from God. Many people in the OT were not farmers and God did not require them to tithe. They gave freewill offerings of money. For example, In Exodus, the temple was not built with the tithe, God asked every Israilite to bring a freewill offering and they brought so much Moses had to ask them to stop giving. Money was plentiful in the Old Testament. In fact Abraham was rich in silver and gold but God never commanded any Israelite to tithe money. Money was simply not titheable in the OT. I now give by grace as Paul taught in the NT. Paul could not accept tithes because he was not a Levite but a tent maker. Jesus did not tithe because he was a carpenter. They gave their required money to support the temple like to Torah asked every male over 2o years old to do.
Of course, if a person of their free will decides to give a percentage of any range from their income to the work of the Lord then of course that is their decision based on Grace and not out of fear of a curse ripped from a biblical text and given new meaning. But as soon as giving is called a tithe that’s mandated, forced, or becomes a requirement based on Malachi chapter three or Matthew chapter 23 or some other dubious implied command from the Bible, it represents poor hermeneutics and sloppy exegesis. Tithe teachers who hold Malachi 3 to the heads of God’s people like a 357 magnum and pull the trigger with a curse upon them have committed the greatest betrayal of GRACE and the work of Christ on the cross that almost rivals Judas’ betrayal of Christ with a kiss.
@Dr. Frank Chase
I’m interested by what you mean that tithing did not work? Do you mean it didn’t change your heart? It didn’t help you become more generous? It didn’t contribute anything of value to God’s kingdom?
I describe tithing/giving as a spiritual action where one is transformed by this selfless act. Giving is a way we combat the love of money. By giving we free ourselves from the clutches of money.
I’m coming to find that I must come from a strange Christian background. In my neck of the woods giving and tithing are used interchangeably. However, I’m finding that for some these two words are on opposite ends of the spectrum. I use them interchangeably in my title – Giving/Tithing. If this post was called Giving While in Debt would you feel any differently about it?
In this article http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/christian-giving-seeking-a-healthy-view-of-giving-and-tithing/ I share why I’m uncomfortable with the idea that people should only give when they feel like it. This is because I think giving is a spiritual act. Spiritual acts that are governed by our feelings can be unhealthy.
In this post I do not feel as though I berate or criticize anyone who does not give a 10th. In fact, I am a proponent of proportionate giving (http://www.moneyhelpforchristians.com/proportionate-giving/) and strongly disagree with some of the common ways people talk about the tithe as a type of tax or mandatory payment.
Did you think that this post called for a kind of giving that is mandated or forced? I’m wondering if your response was directed at what others have said about tithing not what I wrote about in this post. Could you please show me places where I ‘give the text new meaning?’, mandate or force the tithe, use Malachi 3 over the heads of God’s people? I get that you have an issue with the concept of the tithe, but it seems like most of your response is regarding general teachings about the tithe not the content of this post.
I am interested in knowing – how would you answer the question that I was asked in this post?
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts.
I guess this relates to the issue of being a good steward, but my issue with giving while in debt is, is it right to give away what is not yours?
Imagine, for instance, i have £10,000 debt on a credit card – is it right if i then decide to give what is essentially the credit card companies money to charity? Furthermore, is it a good witness to do so? Giving away what we don’t actually have could be seen as stealing by some.
@Joel
Yeah, I’ve thought about this. Since most people in the Western world are in debt for most of their lives if those who had debt were encouraged never to give there wouldn’t be any giving.
You do make a good point that is worth considering.
Once you distinguish between the differences between tithing and giving then I can answer the question. You cannot interchange tithe and giving, they are two disctinst functions and contents.
@Frank
Thanks for your follow up comment. I’ll need to continue to learn and study because I do use them interchangeably, but perhaps I will need to evaluate things and land on a term to make things clearer.
@Frank
Sir, I think Craig made it very clear that he uses the terms tithe and give interchangeably in the same way that many Christians today use it. While this is technically incorrect, I believe that God cares about the function more than He cares about the form. Don’t you?
Please forgive me if I’m wrong, but to tell him you will not respond to him until he is able to distinguish between the two terms is both arrogant and rude, evincing either a head full of knowledge and a lack of humility, or an undealt-with emotional wound. It almost sounds like you are trying to set up a strawman argument about tithing so that you can blast it and give vent to your feelings.
I hope that you feel better soon!
Charlene,
Thanks for your words. I
People are in debt because they are charging their giving to credit cards. Giving should be done with cash only.
I agree with Joel, that we are breaking the commandment of thou shalt not steal by not paying our debts. The bible does not say Thou shalt tithe. It does say bring all the tithes in that there will be food in my house.
Many that I know give hilariously while letting their car payment lapse.
So let your conscience be your guide. It’s harder for a hilarious giver to get serious with their debt, and I agree – being faithful in small things such as paying your bills, will lead you to be faithful in larger things, such as ministry. So take care of business God can bless you while you bless others by paying your bills. After all, the person to whom you owe money, cannot pay give to the Lord if you haven’t paid for the work they did, or the product you purchased. This discussion is healthy.
The problem with using the term tithing when meaning giving is that the church teaches The Lord’s Tithe (their twisted and re-written version of Leviticus 27:30-33) and includes Malachi 3:8-10 regarding robbing God. When most church goers hear the word “tithe,” they associate it with The Lord’s Tithe. Giving is NOT tithing and thus the word tithe should NEVER be used when referring to free-will giving.
It seems the only time I hear the word stewardship in church is when talking about the tithe. The truth is, stewardship on 100% of one’s income (and time, etc.) should be the concern. If Christians were properly taught good stewardship, which includes praying and asking for guidance BEFORE any major purchase, they might not be so far in debt.
I personally teach that debts should be paid BEFORE any giving. Let me clarify. I am not saying your house and car need to paid off in full before you give, but definitely all monthly expenses should be paid before giving. The monthly house payment and car payment should be paid BEFORE there is any giving. To do otherwise is being a POOR STEWARD OF GOD’S MONEY. Fact is, we would all be better off if we paid cash for everything, including our house and car. The tens of thousands of dollars we would save in interest could be used to help others. A good steward would be able to SAVE the money and pay cash.
In the New Testament, Jesus said that when you give to the needy/poor you are giving to Him. At no time did Jesus say when you give to the church you are giving to Him. MOST of what is given to a church goes for the building, utilities, salaries, etc. Very little goes to help the poor. I do believe that those who attend church should financially support the church, but don’t think that giving is giving to God because it isn’t.
Gary
.
Thanks for your comment. Thanks for encouraging me to put my thinking cap on
The semantics are difficult here. There really is no way to know what a person thinks when they hear the word tithe – unless we ask them. I come from a non-denominational background and I’ve never heard the term The Lord’s Tithe (I just learned something). I’ll I’m saying is that how one defines a tithe is based on their own background and experience with the word tithe. I’ll admit that I am coming to find that people do abuse or misuse the word so I’m trying to be more cautious about how I use the word tithe – so that I don’t cause confusion.
I’ve noticed in the comments that we are starting to put ourselves in an awkward position. It seems as though two options exist. If you are in debt you can either (1) Give or (2) not give. What about the third option – sell whatever is keeping you in debt? I personally would rather do that than stop giving. It seems extremely greedy to me to say to God – I’ve got this “x” bill or payment so God your no longer at the top of my priority list.
I would gladly separate payments that are necessary for life from luxuries. I don’t think God is going to zap anyone for maintaining their humble house payment in lieu of giving. But, what about someone who has a $250,000 house and $25,000 car who can’t afford to give?
Wouldn’t it be spiritually healthier to sell the junk and give?
The problem is when people attach themselves to things and this becomes more important than participating in the grace of giving.
I wonder how clear of a distinction we can make between the poor and the church. The church is the body of Christ. I agree that too many dollars have been spent on ‘stuff’ to the neglect of the poor, but isn’t a contribution to a church is giving to God? Jesus said to Paul, “why do you persecute me?” The “me” in that case was the church. How we treat the church is a reflection (indirectly ?) on how we treat Jesus. Right?
The solution (it seems to me) is educating and encouraging church leaders to have a stronger heart for the poor.
It is good to see some healthy discussion regarding tithing . I had to temporaily decrease my giving to 6 1/2 % because I was having to use credit cards to pay for some of my groceries and other essential items each month . I am soon going to have a budget that will allow for 10 % . I discovered that having having all of my monthly income going out each month made it impossible to pay 10 % without going deeper into debt . I respect the differing views concerning tithing but I sincerely believe that a Christian has to trust the Lord to guide them in their giving . I do not believe that God curses anyone financially for faling to give 10 % every month . Not every Christian has a budget that enables them to give 10 % .
Bill,
Thanks so much for sharing your story and perspective. What I like about your comment is that it highlights that it is not the percentage that is most important.
Actually, the solution, for the future, is to educate the young while still in school.
You hit on a big problem. People live above their means and thus have little, if any, left to spend. IF people would pray before they buy that expensive house, car, or other item(s) maybe The Spirit would direct them to buy something they could easily afford.
I really don’t disagree with you that maybe some should sell their luxury items if they aren’t able to be a generous giver. It would seem to me that the giver-at-heart would live BELOW their means in order that they would have more left to give.
Too many Christians have missed the important stewardship teachings of the Bible and wind up slaves to their debtors. Church leaders aren’t helping the situation by continually asking for tithes and offerings. They should be teaching good stewardship habits which, unfortunately, few pastors seem to possess themselves.
@Craig,thanks for voicing out your concerns on the issue of giving and tithing.It is sad to note that you are giving an allowance to people who consider setting off their tithes for some time.You are actually giving them advice!!I’m not sure if God still wanted peolple to tithe and observe the tithe law,he would agree with you on sidestepping obeying his law for a few months!In any case,u say when Jesus said”Why do u persecute me”to Saul,he meant the church.That’s true,but your definition of the”church”seems to be at fault.The church meant the believers and basically if we give to the “church”it must be to each of those poor folk we attend services with who are struggling to make ends meet.That’s what they did in the book of Acts.My advice to you,read the Word.Focus on the truth and you will get to heaven.
Great discussion! It is one that is very needed at this time. @Gary and concerned citizen…very good points. It is true that tithing is preached and stewardship is rarely, if ever, preached. Being in debt is a kind of bondage. We should, at all times, give prayerfully, seeking the Lord first, and doing it cheerfully.
Back again, and enjoying the discussion, which in my case today, is timely. Our sermon today was on Malachi and the tithe. Our pastor is studious and careful, and presented a sermon that was balanced and freeing. He shared various tithes that we saw in the Bible – old testament before the law, old testament after the law. He shared about one-time tithes that Abraham did, and that was not even on his own stuff – it was on spoils – for Melchizedek. He talked about tithes for the Levites, for the poor, the widow, the orphan He talked about bringing tithes for festivals – if you could not carry it, sell it and bring money to buy food at the end of your journey to celebrate. He reminded us of freewill offerings such for the purpose of building the temple, and that they received so much they had to ask the people to stop – when have we had that situation in modern day….? In the end of it all, we come to the new testament, where we see the pharisees tithing and being proud and arrogant about it. The final conclusion we arrived at the end of the sermon : God no longer is demanding a tithe – we are His completely, not under the law, but under grace. God loves a cheerful giver – we can give whatever we choose and joyfully. If God is speaking to you to tithe, then do so. If he speaks to you to give offerings, do so. Don’t limit it to that. Everything we have is His when we are His, so don’t hang on to stuff too tightly. He will bless you when give beyond what you are able in certain circumstances. Again, the need to be LED by The SPIRIT. If you are sitting in a church that is wacking you over the head to give tithes, and offerings, and over and aboves, and above over and above, and the leadership is rich and fat, you should rethink WHERE you are giving. Don’t stop giving, just change where it goes. If there are people hungry in your church and widows and orphans in need, and the church is rich and fat, rethink your giving, but don’t stop giving. I am now free. Glory.
And, we don’t give tithes to earn anything by the way. We don’t get to heaven by giving tithes. Jesus paid it all. It is finished. Nothing we can – not by our own righteousness but according to HIS mercy, He saved us! Glory.
Giving comes out of a heart that is set free by knowing Jesus paid it all. Giving is an act of thankfulness, not an obligation or pain or requirement.
Legalism has no place in the life of believers. We can follow the truth and the Truth will set us free.
Hey everyone. Thanks for the great discussion.
@concerned christian
I agree that if God wanted people to tithe and that was a command if I said something different than God then that would be bad news. However, I do not believe the tithe is a law.
I certainly hope my journey to heaven will not be dependent on anything I do. And yes, I will continue to read the Word.
@Linda
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Every church denomination has very different teachings about giving, tithing,a nd stewardship. It is obvious by people’s responses what their local church teaches.
@Interested Reader
I completely agree that giving is not an action of justification – we don’t earn salvation by giving. However, I think Paul would agree that giving is an act of the sanctified (2 Cor. 8-10). Paul is not willynilly about giving. It’s not a do it if you want to approach to giving. Giving is important and it completes something in us as Christians. I have no problem encouraging people to give. I don’t think that is legalistic in any way.
@Frank Chase Jr.
I’ve been trying to see where the tithe and giving or “two distinct functions and contents”. I’m trying to figure out what that means. Could you please give me an example so that I can more fully explore this topic?
Craig,
Great blog. I’m really excited to see your spiritual and pragmatic approach to finances as well as the great personal finance tool reviews.
Our church doesn’t use tithing terminology but i definitely agree that most Christians would relate that term to giving to God. My thoughts over the last decade of life and ministry are that the tithe is the minimum we should consider in our offering to God. Greed, materialism, the worries of this life, and riches are dangerous devices used by satan to deceive Believers. I haven’t made a contribution to my Church in years but I make an offering to my God every time I have a financial blessing (income tax return, pay check, etc…).
Keep up the goog work.
@Craig,
Great thoughts there, and your answers to most of the questions. One would have thought we have ‘cloned’ minds, as I’m persuaded about your perspective on the subject and discuss very similar things in other places.
Many people react against any mention of tithing (even as a principle) probably because they have picked up so many things from legalistic arguments and missed the gist altogether. The problem is not even helped by theologians who misrepresent Israel’s tithes as ‘taxes’, which is simply unfounded. The tithes were a ‘gift’ from Israel to God, even though He had commanded them to do so.
Tithing as a principle need not be an anathema for Christians. Nor is there any reasonable argument against ‘proportionate’ (or percentage/measurable) giving in the NT, since Paul clearly pointed to such a concept in 1 Cor. 16:2.
However, these issues are easily accessible – as long as we can all understand that God’s call to the Christian is not legalistic. Sometimes even such preferred terms like ‘freewill’ and ‘giving’ over ‘tithing’ become empty ritualism when Christians fail to grasp the basics.
Blessings all.
Hi. There is a difference between poverty (having little income) and being in debt.
This makes sense to me. Scriptures I have studied are referenced here. God wants you to have a heart for tithing, and it is referenced in the New Testament. I think there is tithing and then there are the things God lays on your heart above and beyond tithing.
The master chewed out the guy with the talents because he buried them to keep them safe because he felt he would just get in trouble no matter what he did, so why try? Bad move! Non-faithful move.
What if we are supposed to do things (tithe and give) without being afraid? What if we are supposed to “test God in this”? We should never beat someone up for giving both because they want to obey and because they are testing God to see if they will be blessed. If God says to do it, then do it!
You know, I believe He isn’t limited by my budget. I am in debt and have messed up. My husband and I are trying to pay it off. It is so tough. But I am not letting go of Him.
I plan to explore more of the resources here. I hope you are still posting, Oh Dear Author. Thank you for this resource.
I am about to have to move to a job that is near minimum wage. It is £14500 gross per year. That is 1208 gross per month which after tax is 920 per month. (I work all my finances out per month). My rent is 275 per month, insurance 15, electricity 50, water 30, council tax 75
which for my flat is a total of 445 for the flat.
Also direct debit I have other insurance 15, phone (important for keeping in touch with friends because I don’t have any where I live) 15, internet 5, 42 bus pass for getting to and from work, 10 for worldvision, 12 for a website that I set up for a walking group to try and meet and spend time with people where I live cos its depressing not knowing anyone where I live and 4 for dvd rental to stay sane (don’t have TV). I’m also paying off a student overdraft of 2,000 gradually at 50 per month. I’ve got 300 out of it so far.
So that’s a monthly direct debit total of 103.
On a weekly basis I take out 50 and apportion 25 – 30 for food and 20 – 25 on household items, toiletries, having one coffee a week with friend, buying a book if I can afford it or going to cinema once in a while if I can afford it or if I need new shoes cos they’ve worn out I use this to save up for new ones.
In a calendar month my weekly normal spending is 50 x 4.5 which is 225.
That gives a total expenditure each month of 773.
I will get 920 per month and I spend 773 so that leaves 147 cushion.
That would be for emergencies like prescriptions, my shoes suddenly falling apart, the occasional travel I have to make to meet my Principal etc (40 a time), presents and cards for people, saving up for driving lessons, if something in my flat were to blow etc.
If I were to work out how much tithe I should give based on gross income, I should give 120.
I’m guessing my worldvision money (10 per month )counts as part of the tithe.
Should I really give 110 of the 147 away each month and leave myself with 37 pounds a month for emergency cushion and saving up etc???
I need to buy a pair of trousers for work next month which will cost £30 and that would leave me with 7 pounds for the month but I also have to buy a 40 pound train ticket to meet my Principal and I also have to buy some medication that costs 20 pounds.
If I gave away 120 per month I would leave myself vulnerable to losing my flat and getting into real problems. I wouldn’t be able to buy my trousers for work or my medication and I wouldn’t be able to make my important appointment with my principal.
Thanks. Lizzie
@Lizzy
I don’t think that you need to feel obligated to give 10%. God won’t be angry if you don’t. However, if you are not participating in the grace of giving you miss out on the spiritual blessings associated with giving. I can’t deny or turn a blind eye to your situation. But, I can’t validate everything you and say it is good for you to stop giving. That is a personal decision you should make in prayer. Just know that when you stop giving you give up something special.
May God guide you and give you the wisdom.
I also have similar question. I am not sure what is right to give to church, family, outside charity and own personal goals such as saving for a house,etc. My mum passed away 3 years ago and my dad haven’t worked since she was first diagnosed (that is about 10 years back) to take care of her and therefore we struggled. My dad now only get limited money from the government. I have gone through redudancy for about 9 months due to financial crisis and my savings is not as high. I have found worked since and now, I was wondering what is appropriate to give?
Should I give my dad more so that he can live easier as he also said he wanted to go for a holiday and haven;t been for the last 10 years? Every friend around me have already bought a property and I also want to save for one. Is it selfish to save for a property instead of giving more to my dad or giving to poor people in 3rd world countries? And how much should i give to the church? Should I give less offering so that I can help my dad more? and how about my personal goals objective? How to allocate for each area of your life.
John,
I would direct you to 1 Tim. 5:8 and Mark 7. Gifts to care for family are treated just as if you were giving to the Lord. Why? We have a responsibility to our families and honor God when we provide for them.
I don’t believe (in this case) God’s main concern is where you give.
I would like to know if it is okay to pay tithe based on your net income or should you pay tithe on your gross? I’ve found this debate about tithing and giving very interesting, and I believe that tithing is scriptural and it is about giving God the first and best but would be interested to know others thoughts on this issue
Hi Val,
first of all, tithing in the Bible was never money. Secondly, in terms of what you should give, 2 Cor 8:9 speaks of giving what you have, not what you don’t have.
If the gov’t takes the money and you never have it, then it is not yours to give or use. If you get a return from income tax then that is yours to give from, but again, like I said, tithing is not money. A book that will help, since I haven’t given the scripture for that is “Beyond Tithes and Offerings” by the Webb brothers. Or I’m sure it’ll probably be easy to learn about if you search online. Seek and ye shall find.
update: Val, you have to keep reading after 2 Cor 8:9, it’s in verses 10 or 11 I think, but it should all be together
Dear Craig,
I had many questions regarding this concept.
All my life, I gave from my heart, even before I was Christian because instinctively I knew it blessed me to do so. Not that I gave to get reward, but in my heart I always felt good to give. God blessed me with an (overly) giving spirit and I was the person who routinely got taken advantage of because if this, but I still gave, and couldn’t help it. I even felt that the “secular” concept of “what goes around comes around” applied to this life before I became Christian. So when I became Christian in 2006, I never had a problem with tithing.
In 2008 God blessed me with a good job for which I had to re-locate to another state. After relocating, my current home did not sell during the real estate market crash, and dropped in equity so vastly that I could not come up with the money needed to sell it. During that year, my salary at my new job went entirely to pay for my primary home (especially the property taxes which are criminal in my state and my biggest expense), so I needed to live off a credit card to pay for rent, school, daycare, food, power, etc in the area of my new job.
I have never been in credit card debt before, and have never lived extravagantly. I rented a tiny, cheap as possible place that I crammed my family into at my new job (and my current home is a small 3 BR ranch anyway). Even during that year as I was spiraling into debt just to pay normal bills to support life, I also tithed fully believing God would come through and provide. The tithe took much that would have saved me from living off the credit card, but I still gave a full tithe in faith that God would soon sell my house.
After one year of paying for 2 living arrangements, I ran out of credit and approached bankruptcy. I had to move back to my house urgently and was blessed to even get a (horrible) job on such short notice.
However since then, I have been trying to dig out of debt that did not come upon me because I bought a McMansion or Ferrari. I needed to stop tithing since 2009, although I still give what I can (maybe about 2%), and God KNOWS this hurts my heart because I always felt great joy with giving. I still cry every time I see those “Feed the Children” commercials, and cannot send to them what I used to. But I basically live paycheck to paycheck (barely) now, and I cannot pay less to any of my bills (as suggested in your article), as I would instantly lose my credit rating . I cannot risk losing my credit because I have found out (especially with changing jobs recently) that one’s credit score is now a criteria by which employers weed out candidates. It is also hard to even rent a home if your credit is bad. As I am the sole supporter of my six year old and my severely disabled husband (MS), I cannot default on my bills because they depend on me. I would otherwise live in a hut because I really don’t care about “things”.
I saw that another comment in this string that stated that tithing “did not work”. I am not certain what it is supposed to “work for”. I have listened to many Christian leaders, Pat Robertson, Charles Stanley, Joel Osteen, and many more, and all say the same things about tithing as you do, but assure that God blesses tithing.
I guess my question is that I tithed all my life before becoming a Christian and even in faith during a year that put me into deep debt from circumstances beyond my control (and if I hadn’t tithed, I actually would be much better off now financially). So why didn’t tithing work?
I would still sell my house in a second (it is just a “thing”) but it is now worth 70K under what I owe on it, so I cannot even refinance to get a better rate, and certainly do nit have 70K to “pay to sell” it.
If I were to tithe now, I would go bankrupt in about 2 seconds, so I do not know what to do. I gave in faith as my finances were crashing around me, yet God still has not come through (as is preached by all regarding the financial rewards of tithing). I am a relatively new Christian, and some have told me this is just attacks of Satan since I became Christian. I still have faith in God, but I am at the end of my rope, and keep praying He will relieve this, even if just allowing me to sell my house so I can lower my expenses (eg, property taxes). I would gladly give God back any money I reclaim.
People have also told me that these are just “tests” by God to make me stronger. I can safely say that at this point between severe financial stress and the stress of failing health of a family member, that I am weaker than I have ever been, tired and losing faith at this point. Despair and hopelessness are setting in. God says he wants us to need Him. Well I DO need Him and have told Him so quite frequently. Where is He? And I guess my tithing didn’t “work” for me either with regards to financial relief from God. And when I say financial relief, it isn’t just for bills, but there may be a day soon I need to hire professional help for my disabled husband. I pray that doesn’t happen though and constantly speak words of faith for healing over his body.
I pray all the time, and use positive words as we are supposed to be able to move mountains with our words. I never speak negatively over my life or finances either. But sadness is setting into my heart and I cannot seem to shake it anymore.
When can I “expect” God to help me? (I have been waiting in expectation for years, which is what I have been told to do as well by other Christians).
I know I am a sinner, and am not perfect. I am trying to walk in God’s path for me daily but fall short. Does God expect perfection (or nearly) before He will come through? If that is the case, I may as well give up now.
Your insight is much appreciated.
@Chris I think that you should just keep looking to the Lord because He first loved you. You can rest in that love. Keep asking Him for blessings. I am so glad that I am no longer under the curse of the Law. Although it is hard, try not to measure your performance against your circumstances.
I made much worse mistakes than you. I just made bad debt decisions. I still ask God to save me EVEN FROM THE CONSEQUENCES. This is why. In my heart I know that I know longer want anything to do with being irresponsible with money. That is all I know. I am paying off my debts as I can. Some things have gone into collections.
My car just got repossessed after we talked to the bank and said we won’t have any money until our tax return. We told them we want to pay our car off at that point. They came and got the car anyway. I said “Why God?”. But then I just kept praying. Our tax return came and we are now picking up our car before the auction. The bank didn’t have to give our car back to us. I think it is called a “redemption”, which makes me smile!
I am now praying that God will bless my web design business so that I can pay my debts. That is my heart because He put it there.
I guess I am saying I believe that even though I put myself here, I will keep praying and looking to God because I never want to qualify for blessings based on my performance. If you break one law, you break all.
Tithing/giving is a blessing to me and it is a blessing to others. I just ask where God wants me to give. Sometimes there really is nothing left in my account after all of my auto-deducts come out. I truly believe that because God sees me through Jesus’ blood, I am not going to get punished. My circumstances are my opportunity to remember who has conquered this world.
Praise Jesus! What a relief!
Dear Linda and Val,
Thank you both for your kind words. As I know logistically that God is always supposed to be there for me, I am not sure why I still do not have comfort or peace in my heart, and He is not always obvious to me. I spend many nights having full blown panic attacks, especially with a very high stress job that is not anything near what my purpose should be. I thank God for a job, but it is honestly a job that tortures my soul, and expects 70 hours a week (or whatever it takes to get the job of 3 people done on a regular basis).
So this is also a source of agony for me as I never wanted to be a working Mom, but have no choice and have little time with my child. I always wanted children, and God blessed me with one, but with a huge string attached. He knew I always wanted to be a stay at home Mom but put me in a situation where this is impossible.
So I feel like He has taunted me saying “here is this beautiful miracle child you wanted, but you can’t spend any time with her.” Even if I won the lottery today, I could never get the time back with my child these past years that I have lost because I have had to work.
This job I have also barely keeps up with the “bills” and I suppose it would be more tolerable if I were making great strides regarding paying off my debt. But in my current position, I am in agony emotionally, and there is no light at the end of the tunnel with regards to getting out of this financial chasm that came upon me not due to my own fault or bad financial choices. (this makes me angry too, why bother being a good steward all my life? Look where I ended up anyway…). My situation does not motivate me to be a good steward anymore. Maybe when I get out of debt, I will go buy that Ferrari (actually I don’t care about cars or things, it is a metaphor…but maybe I’ll travel the world recklessly).
I just pray God brings me a good paying job that I truly enjoy (I would settle for one that has normal hours and doesn’t invoke daily panic attacks and irritable bowel syndrome).
If I did not have a family to support, I really wouldn’t care and would live in a hut, but I cannot live in an unsafe environment with a 6 year old. I also need benefits for a husband who has a severe and deteriorating disease.
So I keep praying, and I hope that God comes through soon. I must admit, I do not have Job’s constitution and determination, and years of stress is not making me a “better” person, but is making me begin to doubt God’s Word. He says we can move mountains with our words. I have not seen any evidence of that yet as I speak positive words of faith over my finances and my family’s health daily for years now. If God knows that I am now doubting His Word, I hope He shows me a sign soon to prove to me otherwise. Pat Robertson says to “test” God. Well I have, and by all appearances, He has failed the test, and I almost went bankrupt while STILL tithing in faith when my finances were actively crashing around me. This does not help people with fragile “young” faith keep it.
I am close to giving up and trying to do it on my own a la Tony Robbins or other “self help” gurus. They seem to be happier and more fortunate.
I wish you both good luck with your finances, and that you prevail.
Thank you for the information.
@Chris You are frustrated and I completely understand. You have one hurdle after another and maybe it looks hopeless.
I never mean to offend, so please take this in the tone that it is intended. I think you are looking at your performance too much and not at God’s love for you. If you shift your focus to His Grace, and ask Him to lift your burdens, and just refuse to worry about all your mountains, and then just focus on what His death on the cross did for you, you will begin to experience exceptional peace.
God cares about your concerns (Matthew 6:25-28 and then read the entire thing). You already have righteousness because when you accepted Jesus, God can only see you through His blood. I think God will not work effectively in our lives until we realize we can’t do it and we give it back to Him.
Once you know that God sees you as His righteous child, you will be able to ask Him for anything and everything. And you will believe. There are tons of Scriptures to read. Read about Abraham in Hebrews. His belief (and Sarah’s) were credited to them as righteousness, just as you believed when you first accepted Christ. When you know your standing in Christ, your life will change.
If you want to chat or anything, you can contact me at (and I am spelling this out so as to limit spam): lg dot taylor at gmail dot com. So, use symbols for the “dots” and the “at”.
I was listening to Tony Robbins when I was feeling horrible about my life some twenty years ago. I tried so hard and the good feeling never lasted. Then my friend told me to read John 3:16. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” I read that and it was my moment. I knew I couldn’t do this any longer on my own. I was saved that day in my living room on my knees.
Tony Robbins, although likable, didn’t do it for me. Jesus did.
I hope you write!
@Chris I agree with Linda, and I am in a similiar situation stuggling with some debts and wondering when there will be an end to the pressure, but I know God understands I’ve asked the “Why?” and “When?” questions and for most of last year I felt really stuck I didn’t seem to be progressing, I was unable to give as I wanted to, but God sees my heart he knows all things and many times when I have felt the despair and hopelessness that you are experiencing, I have to turn to God’s Word and confess it over my situation even through my tears and feelings of sorrow. GOd has so far bought me so many opportunities to clear my debts, because I made a commitment that I want to get out of debt completely so that I can serve him with the resouces he gives me and within the past few months I have had people ringing me out of the blue offering me work, I have had 3 lucrative job offers in the past few weeks, which will go a long way towards helping me to clear my debt. One thing that has helped me in the past year when things were so horrific I had to take days off because I couldn’t afford to travel in to work, was thinking constantly about what my life will be like when I’m debt free and talking to God about evrything thats troubling you, because he understands, ask god to speak to you through his Word, then take him at his Word stand on his Word make it the final authority no matter what happens, God has not forgotten you, if he cares about a sparrow he cares about you, he sees your needs and he will provide for you, I’m not out of debt but I will be I talk to God about it every day and the burden is lifted I worship God like I don’t have a care in the world because he says I can cast my cares on him because he cares about me, I know you are facing a lot of uncertainty but God is with you and he’s not judging you he sees your heart, and Chris I know God will come through for you.
I really hope you are encouraged by this.
Sometimes I think about the fact that it is all about how strong our faith is. By continue to give to those causes we truly believe we are strengthening our faith. As we feel empowered by this process we realize that if we help taking care of those who need it more than us, God will easily help us and support us in many ways so that we can continue to do so. As we help, so we will be helped. Gratitude is often the key because from gratitude comes abundance in unexpected ways.
@Maria Very true.
Maria,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
What I’ve noticed here and in life is that those who argue that we should and must tithe now, hardley ever use any scripture. They usually talk about their personal convictions or experiences. Yet those who argue that we do NOT need to tithe as Christians, usually do so from a scriptural standpoint, and offer plenty of scripture to explain their reasoning.
I would suggest going with the argument that is supported by scripture, and know the distinction between the different terminology. Those who argue pro-tithe, hardly ever make a distinction between giving, tithing, and offering, and the scriptures they use to try to support tithing are usually speaking about giving, not tithing. So again, I’d advise going with solid scripture. Read the scripture and see if it says what the person says it says.
Craig, I didn’t read all of your replies, but when first confronted, you were obviously grasping at straws, trying to glue together explanations that you know were not at all solid doctrine, and not scripturally based. The brother brought scripture to you, and you came back at him in defense to try to protect your personal stance without any relevant scripture. And it looked very dishonest and deceitful of you. It would have been better if you had kept silence.
Eric,
Thanks for your comment.
“Those who argue that we should and must tithe now”
These are two completely different camps that I don’t think should be grouped together. Saying one should tithe (i.e. it is spiritual healthy) has a very different belief than someone who says you must tithe (i.e. it is a legal requirement).
“going with the argument that is supported by scripture, and know the distinction between the different terminology”
The English language is and will always be fluid. The meaning given to a word is never fixed. Thus, we must discuss how one uses terminology. Thus, I’m not “grasping at straws” but trying to be sure everyone is discussing the same thing. That is the foundation of any healthy discussion.
Sorry that you thought my reply was dishonest and deceitful. I felt like and still feel like defining giving and tithing is a legitimate part of this discussion.
In terms of Scriptural support for my stance (giving is a spiritually healthy activity that should be encouraged even amongst the poor) I would refer to 2 Cor 8:1 and 2. Paul writes that the Macedonian Christians gave out of extreme poverty. Yes, you say “2 Cor 8:9 speaks of giving what you have, not what you don’t have” which is correct. However, Paul also commends those who did the opposite – they gave out of what they did not have.
Thus, I stand by my conclusion. Giving is a spiritually healthy thing – even for those in debt.
I appreciate you replying and taking the time to read everyone’s comments. I’d like to point out that more clearly what I was saying about words meanings.
You said:
____________________
I suspect if you asked the majority of Christians what is a ” freewill, generous, sacrificial, joyful offering” most would say that is a tithe.
“The Widow with two coins (Luke 21:1-4 ). This is a discussion of generous sacrificila giving and not tithing.” Here would be another place where semantics is the issue not theology.I believe most Americans would call “generous sacfifical giving” tithing. This is the function usage.
I suspect if you asked the majority of Christians what is a ” freewill, generous, sacrificial, joyful offering” most would say that is a tithe.
“The Widow with two coins (Luke 21:1-4 ). This is a discussion of generous sacrificila giving and not tithing.” Here would be another place where semantics is the issue not theology.I believe most Americans would call “generous sacfifical giving” tithing. This is the function usage.
____________________
So Craig,
are you saying that it’s okay for people to call offerings tithes? I’m asking because it sounds like you’re insinuating that there is no real biblical definition of what a tithe is, and that a tithe is whatever people say it is. So I’d also point out there there are about 17 specific types of offerings (none of which are tithes) in the Old Testament. Are you saying that it’s okay for people to call those tithes and to continue misinformed about what a tithe actually is (and what it’s not)?
And concerning the widow and her mites she gave (since I keep hearing that being mentioned), I’d like to point out that while Jesus did say she gave more than they did and she’ll be rewarded for it, also notice that Jesus was apparently not taking part in what was going on. He was sitting aside observing and pointing out to his disciples what was going on, so we can’t say He was endorsing it. There are many other scriptures that talk about crooked leaders devouring widows houses. In fact, a few verses right above the famous Mal. 3:9 it mentions it (though we never seem to hear anyone ever preach about those verses).
Now, God’s plan was for there to be an equality, so I’d wonder why was this widow so much poorer than everyone else if she was supposed to be receiving a portion of the tithes? By the laws about what was to be done with a tithe, she was supposed to get a portion of it, and if she was not getting what was supposed to be hers by right, then you have extortion taking place. You have extortion today in many churches. If you’re collecting money and supposed to do a certain thing with it, and you do otherwise with it, and don’t give it to who it’s supposed to be given to, then you are extorting money, and you’d be an extortionist. Extortionism was done and is mentioned in the Bible as well. And it is done today. And it is illegal.
That (Luke 21) widow story, by the way was still in the Old Testament so they were still under the old covenant. When Jesus dies it’s new covenant (blood covenant).
Eric,
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
“insinuating that there is no real biblical definition of what a tithe is”.
What I’m differentiating between is a technical definition and a functional one. How a word is used is more important than what it means. You could look up “gay” in the dictionary and tell me it doesn’t mean a same gender relationship, but functionally I would say gay has a different meaning. I could be wrong. I might be the only person to use the word tithe to refer to a gift to the church. If that is the case then yes I’m wrong.
I don’t think this ‘technical’ discussion helps the person who asked the question. Should I give when I’m in debt.
How would you respond?
Hi Craig,
If God’s definition is what you mean by “technical” and man’s definition is otherwise, then I think it helps to correct man and let man know what the definition is, and let man line up with God’s definition instead of trying to have God line up with man’s definition. Especially, since almost any person who says “tithe” has heard Mal. 3, and has heard some preacher tell them that if they hold back their tithe (which they’ve redefined as money) and don’t give it all to God (which they define as pastor), then they’ll be cursed if they don’t.
So the issue here is not simply just that someone doesn’t know the difference between the definition of words, but that these words carry a promise, and that promise is miused and abused to pump fear into people if they don’t give a certain amount of money. There’s a reason why Jesus overturned the tables in the temple (the very first thing He did when He got in town).
And yes, we want to help the original person who asked the question (who seems not to know the difference between giving and tithing. There are many other people here reading who are trying to learn different aspects of all of this.
The first thing you do if you see a child call a dog a cow, is you correct them and tell them what the difference is, especially if you’re telling them to go milk the cow (no pun intended). They need to know the difference.
I think it would be wise, like you said earlier to take time and study some more. I would never down you for that, and wouldn’t mind if you even took several weeks or months to do so before continuing with your discussion of it. That’s not a bad thing, and if you’re giving money help for Christians, I’d think it’d be almost a requirement that you are able to differentiate between a gift and a tithe, just as any tax accountant would know to differentiate between income tax, property tax, and a charitable gift, for example, and would not allow their client to continue thinking that they were all the same thing.
If you do not yet know the distinction between a tithe and a gift or offering, I’m not sure you are yet qualified to counsel other Christians in this area, though you may have good intentions. I say this respectfully.
It is important that we undertand the difference between tithing, giving and offerings. In the bible. there was madatory offering, voluntary offerings, and many other oferring. I think my study could be of help others doing research. Check out http://www.holytithe.com/TithingPresent.pdf.
I read the comments, the intellectual inputs and sharings and I felt more confused. How i wished you just focused on the issue at hand. I just sincerely wanted to know more on giving/tithing while in debt. Anyway, thank you. You are all too intelligent for my understanding.
I have a problem where I would really like to get out of debt, start investing and the be a giver (and this is to be far more than 10%) and I hear a pastor who is earning six to seven figures salary from the poor who give their tithes telling me I should not pay up fast my debts but I should make sure I keep up his six to seven figure salary by tithing when I have debts and cannot meet my daily essential requirements. It frustrate me more when they say they are buy cars and houses without debt and will never be in debt. Obviously with stream of tithes coming regulary they will stay debt free. I would like to give more than what tithes need but I hate being cursed with Malachi.
I really appreciated this dialogue. Thank you everyone for sharing.
tithes has really got me down i feel i am not pleaseing to god stop going to chruch because so in debt can not tithe
I’m sure that God is more pleased with your presence at worship than your tithe. Give him your heart first.
All I can say is Tithing of 10% is form of manipulation that many Christian Churchs use to get their money and they use the scriptures as justification for it. I know this becasue my wife is a church right now and she gives over $300.00 a month and we are in debt to our eye balls. She rather bounce a cheque and give $300.00 to a church then pay our debts. I think this is a serious problem. She is so brained washed about the 10% that she feels that God will punish or she is stealing from God if she doesn’t give her 10%. This of course takes way the gracee and the love of giving. So please forgive me if I don’t agree about 10% rule…no matter how many scriptures you quote…tithing isn’t right when you force people to give out of fear and it cause undo hardship on christian families…10% tithing is unsscriptual to begin with…and I am born again christian!
Just to let you know Pastors like Ben Hinn, Dollar and Joyce Mayers are give out the wrong teaching and are manipulating many christian to give and give and give, and they are the ones who are very very wealthy! Something isn’t right about it! http://www.ministrywatch.com/
Unknown,
I’m very sorry for you situation and the stress giving has caused in your marriage. I can assure you that is not the intent.
I know you’re feeling frustrated about the situation.
I’d suggest that you ask your wife is the two of you could sit down with a leader at her church (I’m assuming you don’t attend) and talk openly about your frustration.
To be clear, you may need to reread this post if you think I’m discussing any type of a 10% rule. Also, is there a part of this article that you think is my attempt to manipulate or force people to give? I’ve done my best to talk about the blessing of giving and if I’ve failed to do that please forgive me.
Dear Chris, are you still there? I would like to help you in whatever way I can.
Yes it just went on and on giving no answers. It’s all personal belief on whether you believe what you will gain is (not always) influence by what you give. “You cannot live on nothing. ”
Life costs money, dont’s throw it all away on beliefs, this does not pay the bills.
PLAN AND SIMPLE. Open your eyes. Everyone talks in order to make you believe your giving will have a positive outcome in life. Understand your giving gives them a positive outcome *you recieve only what you HAVE LEFT TO AFFORD.
I’ve read most of the comments on this page…I must say after several years of studying the tithe(s) in scripture – there were so many to choose from -, I’ve come to understand that its not for Christians. I pray that the Christians who are concerned about tithing…just do what I did….I spent time studying it through reading my bible and the resources on the internet and the Lord revealed HIS TRUTH – not my opinion. The Word says to study to show YOURSELF approved – 2 Timothy 2:15. Also some commentors mentioned that there are so many different opinions on the subject…yes, there are but I’ve found most of those opinions are from someone who told (taught) you these things, ie a friend or pastor…once you study and research it for yourself, you will see why the gift of Giving is so much more superior! And why the early Christians gave and not tithed – there is a difference. And my final comment is we have spend so much time on this topic…But in doing my research, I found a verse that help me put things in perspective to a certain degree… 1 Timothy 5:8 If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever….if understand this scripture, you’ll also understand that you MUST take care of yourself if you are to support your family and others.
Be free in Jesus!
I do prefer to promote proportionate giving – giving based on what one has received. I’m not sure that 1 Timothy 5:8 was addressed to people who were considering giving vs. helping family. I think 1 Tim. 5:8 was addressed to people who had resources, but we not using them for to help their family. I’m not saying that Christians shouldn’t provide for the needs of their families, but simply I think this verse has a different context and thus our applying it to our may be misleading.
Proportionate giving can be interpreted in different ways. If you mean that everyone should give the same percentage of their income, I disagree. If you mean as income goes up, the percentage should also go up, that is closer to what I believe.
Proportional giving does not show the heart. Sacrificial giving shows the heart. I believe God looks for sacrificial giving, not proportional giving. There is a big difference between giving from your abundance than sacrificing something in order to give.
Someone making $100,000 a year and gives a tenth, or $10,000, has given very little compared to someone making $10,000 a year and gives even 5%, or $500. The one giving the 5% has sacrificed much more than the one giving a tenth.
God sacrificed His only Son. He didn’t give us a proportional amount.
Jesus sacrificed His life, not a portion of it.
The sacrifice is what matters, not the amount or proportion. No one wants to hear that, so you seldom hear it in church. It’s so much easier just to teach a percentage and leave it at that.
Gary,
When I speak of proportionate giving I’m thinking of 2 Cor. 8:12. Thus, we give according to what we have.
Proportionate giving is also about giving according to our faith, experiences, knowledge, or even age.
I’m not sure if sacrificial giving is the standard or not (not saying I disagree I honestly don’t know). I think about Zacchaeus who gave away half of everything he owned and Jesus said salvation had come to his house. I don’t know if that was truly a ‘sacrifice’ or not, but he showed Christ that money was no longer his master or idol. If Zacchaeus had 5 million in the bank we could easily argue that giving 2.5 wouldn’t have require a sacrifice. If anyone gives a portion of their income it seems as if they must sacrifice in order to do so.
Craig, 1 Timothy 5:8 starts with ‘anyone’ …it doesn’t distinguish between someone who is rich.or poor…. scripture interpret scripture. I know that you wouldn’t give to church before you supported your family….unless God specifically told you to do so!
I think for many people it is possible to give and provide for their family.
One of the key points of my post is that sometimes people stop giving, but they don’t stop spending. Not having money to give is often a result of poor habits and poor money management. A person who has poor habits and poor money management who stops giving will still have money problems.
In a case where a person does have good habits and good money management and nothing to give I do suggest they sit down with a trusted church leader. There is now law one ought to follow.
My reference to Timothy was simply to say I think that Paul was addressing the fact that some people were out spending money on other things and didn’t have anything to give to the widows they should be caring for. Paul thinks that is a tragedy – even unbelievers wouldn’t do that.
Thus, the focus of this passage is not giving, but neglecting important responsibilities with your money.
hi craig,
thanks so much for even having this discussion. i know it’s a lot of work, you’ve done a great job of being kind while using scripture as your guide. be encouraged. i was glad to come across this discussion… wasn’t sure i’d find something biblically based on this topic. no shock that i’m not alone on these questions. here’s my situation… would love your advise please.
bottom lines: my husband and i have always tithed 10%. not out of duty or to get pay back… but out of cheerful obedience and knowing that there is a blessing that comes out of this. in my personal experience, i have received specific financial blessings at times, when i tithed not knowing how my bills would be payed or if i’d have enough at the end of the month, but knew that i was giving in faith and God would provide. we have also tithed for years now, and been cautious and responsible (mostly… we’re not perfect and i know we’ve gone for dinner here or there more than necessary etc… thank goodness we are not under law and under the grace of Jesus) with our monthly income. my husband works full time and gets as much overtime as possible. i stay home with our young children and have international students living with us in order to provide a small second income. we are doing all we can, are not able to sell our home or vehicle etc. etc. we are not in credit card debt but are unable to make ends meet each month, no matter how much work we do… so are forced to ask for and take money from a parent. every month. for years now. this parent that gives us money each month is no longer in a position where they can comfortably do this… they will possibly need extra care in the near future as they are elderly and ailing and we have come to a point that we depise having to take the money and negatively affect their financial situation but completely disagree with using our credit cards to pay our bills. we won’t do this. SOOOO… in this situation, we have continued tithing, knowing that we are giving cheerfully the first back to God that all was His in originally anyway. everything we have comes from Him. right now, our tithe has collected over the last 2 months as we were switching churches… and we are in an extra difficult financial position this month. we discussed using this built up tithe (that i should’ve given immediately anyway) this month since we are in such a tight spot… only this one time. but still weren’t sure. we decided to take today to pray about it, both feeling that this may be a God providing us with a gift this month, but also so hesitant because we want to obey and not be swayed by our emotions on this and mistake it as God’s will. so i ended up searching online, and here i am now, thankful that you have this discussion and hoping you are still there and able to advise us on this.
Thanks for your comment.
I’m sorry you’re in such a difficult situation. It must be hard knowing your doing so much and feeling like you’re getting little results.
I’m thankful for your heart and your desire to seek out God’s will in this decision.
Here’s a couple of things to think about:
1. What’s your long term plan. To stop giving right now would be an immediate solution, but if there is not a change somewhere it doesn’t solve anything. The cost of goods may continue to go up and in a year or two you may not be giving and still unable to pay your bills. Thus, it seems like focusing on increasing your income would make a greater difference (financially and spiritually) than to stop giving.
2. I think of giving as spiritual foundation building. If you cannot afford to give now at what point will you be able to? You need to think ahead to be sure that if you stop that you have an actionable plan to start again.
The answer to your question probably lies in your motive. Ask yourself why you might want to stop giving or why you might want to use the money you planned to give. If the answers do not honor God or come from an emotionally unhealthy place then you should continue to give (including what you originally set aside to give).
I pray that you can find more godly advice to help you make a decision that will honor God.
Thanks for your response Craig. We do have a long term plan. There are certain large financial changes that will be happening in the short term future that will change our monthly situation, that’s why we were confident in using our tithe build up as a one time action plan. I’m sure my husband has been giving more thought and prayer to this as well, I haven’t spoken to him since I messaged you, so I’ll pass on your comments to him.
In my question to you, somehow my desire to explain our real dilemma must’ve been missed… my mistake. Our number one dilemma is that we DESIRE and want to give our tithe as we always have… like I said, not our of duty or legalism but because we want to give to God what’s His, this has always been a joyful act on our part… but we are putting a hardship on our parent. We don’t feel right about this as we feel that we aren’t giving whats ours to begin with.
So when my husband and I discuss this, our ‘motive’ is only to make sure that we are not taking funds from our parent that needs to stay there in order to pay for their long term care needs that are shortly coming into effect… it’s an awful feeling to call that parent and ask for ‘x’ amount when we know that they need it.
Thanks for your help.
Thanks for clarifying your situation.
The Bible does have some important words about caring for family (1 Tim. 5:8). I think this passage (in context) actually applies most directly to adult children caring for elderly parents. Thus, you’re right to be concerned about the financial need of this parent. If you are putting undo financial strain on a parent by receiving money then the most loving thing you may be able to do is to develop a plan where those funds are no longer needed. I know that is no easy task, but you may discover a way to do this.
PS. You may not have any more advice or response for my last reply to you and that’s fine.
I just wanted to respond and let you know our motive and the heart that it’s coming from. I appreciate your 2 points to think about and we will definitely discuss both of those. Thanks Craig and blessings in your ministry.
Eric,
I wrote a full response to your comment, but in the end I’ve decide to say that I’ve clarified my position and I just don’t think we’ll agree. For that I’m sorry. I feel like we’re not on the same page and probably each of us could be better off investing our time in different ways.
I believe that people who read this post will be blessed by the information. Since that is true I’m satisfied with the results and I’ll invest my time elsewhere.
WHERE IS MY REPLY OR WHAT IS IT YOUR TRYING TO SAY TO ME. JUST GIVE HERE THOSE 3 QUESTIONS. LET HER THINK ABOUT AT AND REALIZE THAT LIFE COSTS MONEY, GOD DOES IMPROVE YOU LIFE SITUATION ACCORDING TO THE MONEY YOU PROVIDE TO CHURCH IF THE CHURCH YOU RESUME ASKS FOR THIS OFFERING FINE ANOTHER CHURCH TO ATTEND THAT DOES NOT GIVE THE FALSE REQUEST THAT YOUR MONEY WILL DEEPEN YOU TRUST FROM GOD. ONLY YOUR FAITH WILL STRENGTHEN YOU TRUST FROM GOD . POSITIVE BELIEVE GAIN POSITIVE REPECT AS THE CHURCHES SAY???. believe what you must.. You know life cost money, and money make the world go around. The more you have the happier you are able to handle situation s that require your attention and costs.
does this make sense to you. This is not the reason I don’t attend churck however never broiught you with the influence of christ. My Dad’s brothers wife kids all sing in the church choir all having lovely voices and sound wonderful when sing at christmas gathering
have never though problems with us for not attending church . I talk to god daily wish good morning and for all l love to have a great ,wonderful day. Have a copy of the bible beside my be and sometime read it. The peacefulness puts into a sweet sleep to last the whole night throught.
Susan,
Sorry I didn’t approve your comment immediately. I do moderate all first comments.
Life most certainly does cost money. I agree.
However, as I mentioned in the post I believe that giving does provide a blessing to the giver. It changes our heart and we become more like Christ. I do believe that is a positive outcome.